This is a contentious subject.
Even just the title is going to irk some people and raise the “what makes you think your opinion is valid” type questions. Aside from all my own personal experience driving, I do run a 4WD tour company, so I get to see a lot of vehicles in action and see which ones break down. I’m usually the one who must tow them to the next point that an off-road recovery company will come and get them from.
I do get this asked about this a lot, so I thought I’d put this guide together.
The Problems With Existing 4WD Advice
Most existing resources or platforms generally have either a strong user bias, poor sampling method or a conflict of interest with their monetisation method. Sometimes all three.
Very few people/publications have the appropriate knowledge and a willingness to say how it is.
Drive.com.au
It’s hard to suggest where the stupidity ends and the incentivisation begins and whether it’s even possible to separate either from the blatant greenwashing.
Drive.com.au is owned by Nine Entertainment (Channel 9, Sydney Morning Herald, Financial Review etc) who are a media company who make their money through advertising. Therefore, it’s not unreasonable to treat every “editorial” piece as a paid for advertorial. This starts to make sense when we look at a few of the vehicles included in their list of “Top 12 4WDs” for 2024/25:
- Mercedes AMG G63. Who is this even targeted towards, seeing as Australia doesn’t have many rappers or oil barons? Granted they’re a capable 4WD, but most people aren’t willing to even scratch a car that retails at ~$370,000.You know what $370k cars do come with? Huge advertising budgets, and correspondingly well positioned paid placements.
- Jeep Gladiator. See why it’s on our list of models to avoid below.
- BYD Shark (PHEV). Please send your local stone mason what you’d like on your headstone, before taking one of these to break down in a remote Australian desert.
- Ford Ranger (PHEV). Even if these prove to be reliable (unlike their combustion models), Australia doesn’t have the infrastructure to support electric 4WDs.
- Renault Duster. A Renault in the Outback? That’s like expecting a wet baguette not to go mouldy in the summer heat. Actually, I tell a lie, they’re not even a Renault, they’re a rebadged Dacia (Romanian). I broke down driving one of these on the Autobahn near Frankfurt, which has a climate and conditions that they’re actually designed for. Forgetting the fact that they’re a shit car in general, they’re not even a 4WD, they’re an all-wheel-drive with a 1.6L engine.
All that’s to say that the journalists at drive.com.au either have no idea what they’re writing about, or are told to write something else.
I’m not certain why the advice is so consistently bad on Reddit, but I have some ideas.
Occasionally someone will offer some good advice on Reddit, however Reddit works on upvotes/downvotes from general users, so even if there is sound advice it gets buried under all the dross. Reddit has a very strong user bias of urban agoraphobes, who really aren’t the right people to get 4WD advice from, and resembles something more like an internal message board for the Greens Party.
If you follow the advice on Reddit, you’ll wind up taking a Jeep or a Range Rover into the desert, where you’ll remain after you break down.
RAC
The RAC’s advice is so consistently agenda driven or misinformed, that I wrote an entire report on how the RAC is deliberately misleading us.
Generally though, the RAC’s advice is often just limited and catered towards people who are going to buy a 4WD without ever really taking it off-road.
Carexpert.com.au
This is just a very typical case where they get average journos to compare cars based on features and inclusions, not in-depth understanding of how life works in the sticks. Also, they generally just take cars around a small test track that tells them nothing of reliability, and little about real world conditions.
Cars Guide
Like all these comparison websites it’s a combination of writers that lack knowledge and competing advertising interests.
CarSales.com.au
This is just a blog tacked onto a classifieds platform that employs staff writers that just regurgitate the advice from the other prominent websites (mainly the same flawed ones we’ve already listed) and focus on irrelevant features such as whether it has USB-C outlets.
Which Car
The same story as the few websites listed above. Ignorance of off-roading, but driven by a pursuit of inbound marketing to chase advertising dollars.
Popular Models of 4WD to Avoid
There’s too many unsuitable cars to list, so we’ve just stuck with the ones that are reasonably popular, despite their flaws.
Jeeps
It’s a shame that Jeeps are unreliable, because they are often some of the most capable models right out of the box and are designed to be modified. However, they’re just too much of a risk in terms of reliability.
Jeeps are generally unreliable, so I can’t really point out a common point of failure, unlike the Ranger below.
The American market that Jeep caters to, is the weekenders who do rock crawling and a lot of other technical terrains, but ultimately not that far away from where they live. This is probably why Jeeps are so capable, but not designed for the reliability that we require from a car when touring around Australia.
Land Rovers
Again, these are a car where it’s a shame that they’re so unreliable because they do have some capable models.
Just like Jeeps, Land Rovers are generally unreliable, so it’s hard to point to a single common fault when there’s so many that spring up.
Just like their Range Rover counterpart, Land Rovers have become a luxury car and are designed for comfort and features over reliability. They’re also designed for the European market, regardless of how many ads of them being used in Africa that they make, and this market simply doesn’t require the level of rugged reliability that we do.
Dodge Ram, Chevrolet Silverado & Other American “Pickups”
These are becoming increasingly popular in Australia and the last few years has seen an explosion of how many we’re seeing on the road.
Sure, a part of it is the wank factor of having a gigantic car, but it is mainly due to the towing and loading capacity. Over the last few years, caravans have gotten a lot bigger and much, much more popular.
These utes are coming off the line (or rather, out of the right-hand-drive conversion facility) with towing capacities and GVMs to go straight on the road, to be used for touring. The problem is, they appear to do well, but these positive reports are coming from people who are simply towing caravans around the highways and not using them for actual 4WD touring.
They are quite good for highway use, but Australia has many more off-road tracks and routes compared to the American Market that these are designed for. For proper off-road touring here, they’ll be exposed to many more corrugated tracks that will slowly rattle these to death because they’re made for towing horses down a graded gravel road or for hauling supplies to a building site.
I like the big yank tanks, but I do bear witness often enough to the fact that they start to rattle apart when put up against our conditions.
Holden Colorado
The Holden Rodeo, was a Holden body with an Isuzu engine. When they stopped this joint badged model, Isuzu started making the D-MAX and Holden/GM started making the Colorado. Moving away from this partnership to make the Colorado with a Thai built Duramax/GM engine was the worst thing they could have done for reliability.
Ford Rangers (Pre 2022) | Mazda BT-50 (Pre-2011)
I have witnessed two manual gearboxes fail and two automatic transmissions fail on Rangers. I have also seen a whole host of other smaller problems occur frequently and know plenty of others in the industry who report seeing the same thing.
The dual cab rangers, when being used as tourers have a real serious problem, that the chassis actually breaks. This is not exclusive to Rangers and happens on dual cabs when they get loaded with a lot of weight as this all sits behind the rear axle. However, it happens more often on Rangers, so much so that you can buy off the shelf repair kits for them.
The latest Mazda BT-50’s are a rebadged/redesigned Isuzu D-Max. I don’t have a huge amount of experience with them, but can happily recommend the D-Max as an excellent value all-rounder, so I expect the Mazda would be quite comparable.
Volkswagen Amarok (V6) | Prior to Ranger/Amarok Merging in 2022
This is sad, because I do quite like the Amaroks. They’re fun to drive and their V6 engine makes enough power for them to go like an absolute shower of shit (very fast, in case you’re not familiar with the expression).
However, I have seen enough things go wrong with Amaroks to suggest avoiding them as the base for a touring car. I have driven one around most of Australia, and have also had to tow one over 29 sand dunes on the Canning Stock Route.
They’re simply not designed for the harsh Australian conditions, and seem to be built around the idea that you’re never too far from a dealership, which probably is the case in Germany.
Some of the issues I’ve seen:
- They don’t have a low-range option. This is largely made up for by their 8 speed auto, but is still something that is a crucial part of any serious off-road 4WD.
- Water pump failure/leaks. I’ve personally seen this happen 3 times, requiring the water pump to be replaced and heard of it happening plenty more.
- DPF blockage causing limp mode. The VWs use a passive burn method in their DPFs, rather than an active burn cycle. This requires high revs for an extended period, such as highway driving. After a few days of slow off-road use, the DPF starts to become clogged which puts the car in limp mode, restricting available power. Not only does this slow you down, but it makes it impossible to crest sand dunes and the like. The way to clean the DPF is to rev the tits off it for a while, but being in limp mode makes this impossible and compounds the problem. If you do have an Amarok, the fix here is to carry a scan tool with you.
- If you run out of fuel or have some other issue that causes air in the lines, there is no manual priming method. There’s a digital sequence that requires a scan tool. I’ve had to manually bleed the common rail of an Amarok on the side of the track.
- The driveshaft from the transfer case to the front diff falls out in serious corrugations. They have a flex joint in the middle to allow for easier installation and a spring clip that sits in a groove of the splined shaft coming out of the front diff, instead of bolting on. In corrugations, the flex joint allows the shaft to become floppy and oscillate up and down which is too much for the spring clip to contain and the shaft falls off at the front. The Amarok is a full-time 4WD, so with no resistance from the front driveshaft, it results in no power going to the rear, so you’re stuck unless you can reattach the shaft.
- The leaf springs mount to the side of the chassis instead of underneath it. This means a lot of common accessories can’t be used, such as under-tray boxes. It also creates a weaker mounting situation for the leaf springs (which is the connection that all the weight, load and force goes through). While I haven’t seen this fail (yet), it’s simply a less robust design and an indication that the VW engineers were focused on features rather than reliability.
- There’s no fuse guide. There’s nothing in the fuse panel to tell you which is which, and if you read the manual it tells you to consult your local dealer. Not only is this beyond stupid, but it’s another indication that these were built for the European market where their use is mainly the occasional gravel road and highways, and not what we use them for over here.
With all that said, the power of the Amarok combined with their 8 speed, makes them a weapon on the beach. Most beach driving isn’t very remote and they’re also a good towing vehicle, so if you go to your local beach a lot and take the boat with you, the Amarok might be a good choice.
Ford Rangers & Volskwagen Amarok (2022 Onwards)
Despite their great performance, it seems that the issues that have always plagued rangers are still there. Taking input from VW, probably wasn’t going to do anything to fix that either.
So, if you’re considering a newer ranger, then it would be a good idea to go consider the problems listed in the Ranger section above. And maybe some of the Amarok ones too.
Mitsubishi Pajero & Pajero Sport
The Mitsubishi Pajero is a monocoque design without a chassis. In a nutshell, extended exposure to corrugations will lead to your suspension saying goodbye to the rest of your vehicle, or punching a hole through the floor instead.
INEOS Grenadier?
These are one to keep an eye on. They’re obviously built to be very capable and they haven’t been foolish enough to use a new, untested engine. However, this is largely a new use-case for the BMW engines that they are utilising, so we will have to see how they go.
I’m sceptical that BMW is the right choice of engine, but regardless of what engine they use, they are still too new and untested for me to be comfortable taking them the places I go.
With that said, I am going to keep my eye on these and see how they fare.
The Best 4WDs for Touring in Australia
If you’re considering a ute, most models will require a fair bit of work to turn it into a tourer, such as conversion to trayback etc and possible GVM upgrades. These are what we consider the best options, to start with before undertaking that process.
Dual Cab Utes: Buyer Beware
Aside from a few exceptions, such as the 79 series Landcruiser, dual cab utes do have problems when set-up as tourers. The biggest issue is that nearly all of the tray on a standard dual cab, is behind the rear axle. Aside from the handling problems this causes, it can lead to bent and broken chassis when carrying the sort of weight that touring often requires.
This is often made worse by using airbags to offset the extra weight against the suspension. While airbags often make sense, as they allow you to adjust the suspension based on the current load, they do concentrate a lot of the force against a single point of the chassis
So if you do require a dual cab for taking the kids with you, try and go lightweight or do think about getting the chassis reinforced as part of a GVM upgrade.
Best Late Model 4WD Utes for Touring
Budget Friendly: NP300 Navara (With Some Modifications)
The NP300 Navara is a decent all-round platform you can build on, that doesn’t come with quite the same price tag as something like a Hilux (particularly second hand).
Being all coil suspension, the Nav is a comfy option. However, this does come with the problem that all the weight in the rear acts through a single location, being the coil, as opposed to two locations such as with leaf springs. It also has the same issues that all dual cabs face, as discussed above.
If you are considering an NP300 and you’re going to load it up for touring, then please do consider a chassis brace kit as well as a coil tower brace.
Toyota Hilux – If You Can Get by With a Shorter Tray
The Hilux is a brilliant ute, with a very well-deserved reputation for reliability, with one caveat: If you’re purchasing second hand, or planning on towing etc. then consider getting a clutch upgrade.
The dual cab Hiluxes seem to be a little bit better with chassis issues as described above – maybe only due to their shorter tray, although I expect it’s probably just a Toyota quality thing – but not immune. If you’re investing in everything else required to turn it into a tourer, you should investigate bracing. Especially if you’re using airbags.
When you do a tray conversion, some models can easily accept an 1800mm long tray. The Hilux will only take 1650mm.
Isuzu D-MAX
The Isuzu D-MAX is a great all-rounder of a ute.
Isuzu engines – coming from a truck engine manufacturing pedigree – are always a little lacklustre in terms of performance or excitement, but are reliable workhorses.
Isuzu have moved away from the electronic simplicity that they once seemed to infuse in their builds, but the mechanical side of things still seems to be quite good.
Like any non-79 dual cab, chassis bracing is still a good idea if setting it up as a tourer.
Not Budget Friendly: Toyota 79 Series Landcruiser Ute
Yes, I know, they are hyped; expensive; less comfortable; they flex less; and have less features.
However, the fact that they’re still sought after despite this, is somewhat testament to their quality.
One of the most common arguments I hear against the 79, is how many modifications they require to take them from work spec to tourer spec. I have two rebuttals: The first is that no cars come in tourer spec, and therefore require a lot of work. The work you need to do to make the ride more comfortable, is comparable to the GVM upgrade work you need done to typical dual cabs or wagons, because 79s already have a metric bucket load of usable tare weight. The second is that there aren’t many necessary upgrades at all, as the 79 comes pretty close to touring ready, it’s just that these are elective upgrades for comfort.
The only real downside (apart from expense) to a 79 that can’t be overcome with a few modifications, is that there’s no extra cab model available, you have to choose between dual or single. But, the upside is that a dual cab Landcruiser has almost as much tray space as your average extra cab model.
I have a Workmate 79 series, because I wanted vinyl seats and flooring, because of the types of dirty terrain I take it through. The downside to a Workmate, is that it doesn’t come with diff-locks and these need to be installed aftermarket. That’s something to consider when looking at a 79.
The bottom line is that it’s hard to find a more robust and tested platform to use as a touring 4WD, than the 79 series Landcruiser, although I do understand that they are unaffordable for many.
If you’re planning to do a lot of towing, or a lot of sand driving consider an upgraded clutch. The 79s have so much torque, that they are quite capable of overpowering the clutch. If you’re getting the 79 tuned for more power/torque, then definitely consider a heavy duty clutch. If you’re getting a tune and towing, then definitely get an upgraded clutch.
Chopped & Extended 300 Series Landcruiser: Very Expensive, But an Absolute Weapon
If having the ultimate all-round tourer is your goal and you have the budget to see it through, then there’s probably no better option than having a 300 series (or a 200), chopped and chassis extended to turn it into a dual cab ute.
This way you get the legendary reliability of a Landcruiser, the functionality of a ute, but with all the comfort and features that are missing in a 79 series.
As part of the conversion process, the company performing it should take care of all necessary bracing, to avoid the chassis bending issues commonplace with dual cab tourers.
If you are going to go down this path, then make sure you consider it before you buy a new Landcruiser wagon. See below, why you should have this done before the car is registered for the first time.
If you can get your hands on an already chopped 200 series Landcruiser, than these are also a brilliant option.
Best Older Model Utes for 4WD Touring
GU Patrol
The GU Patrol ute was one of a kind. Solid axle, coil suspension all round and just a damn good ute.
They’re all of an age and mileage now where you’re going to have to invest a fair bit of money into some upgrades and repairs, but it can be well worth it.
The GU’s are a Patrol, so reliability is good, with a few caveats:
The TD42s (4.2L) are known for overheating, so install an Exhaust Gas Temperature (EGT) gauge so you can catch any temperature climbing well before it would show on the standard water temp gauge.
The ZD30s (3.0L) are known for occasionally melting pistons. However, this doesn’t seem to be much of a thing in the D22 Navaras which utilise the ZD30 engine, but aren’t common rail unlike some later model Patrols. Also, the turbo and airflow sensors are different between the D22 and GU.
The issues with the ZD30 patrols (aside from the general lack of power) seem to be circumventable with a catch-can (or completely bypassing the EGR) and by installing EGT and boost gauges and keeping an eye on them. The ZD30 is particularly sensitive to problems caused by under or over boosting.
If you’ve got the choice between either, the TD42 is a much nicer engine, but much thirstier. I once owned a D22 Navara, and for an old worn-out bucket of bolts it was surprisingly fuel efficient.
One thing that all GU utes require from stock to be suitable for touring, is to brace the rear coil towers. Most brace kits will make the individual tower stronger, but also braces both together so that they can’t bend relative to the chassis.
75 Series Landcruiser Ute
The 75 is the predecessor to the 79. Aside from being older, slower and a bit more thirsty, they’re a beast. The only thing is that the 75s are all old now, so they will need some work.
I’m a Landcruiser man, as you can probably tell by how many times they’ve been mentioned in this article, and because I have a 79 Series cruiser that leads all the Rough As Guts 4WD tours. However, if it came to the choice between modernising/upgrading a 75 Series or a GU ute, I think I would choose the GU. Being all coil, I think they can be set up better for technical four wheel driving, without compromising their touring ability.
Chopped 105 (or 80) Series Landcruiser with GVM Upgrade and Refurbished Engine
I know, this is a bit of a stretch, but there are some out there.
The 105 Series Landcruiser was the last cruiser wagon to have a solid axle front. If you can get one that’s chopped, or chop it yourself, you can have a ute that’s comparable to a GU Patrol but in a dual cab. Not quite as much flex though.
If you can find an older 105 that’s chopped and engineered, then it may be a good candidate for refurbishing the engine. The biggest downside is that they are very thirsty.
Ultimately, I got a bit carried away and this probably didn’t need to be included in this list, but I think it’s because I’m just waiting on the chance to get my hands on one.
Best Wagons for Touring
78 Series Toyota Landcruiser (Troop Carrier)
If you’re a single person or a couple without kids, then the Troopy is definitely the way to go. See all of our comments on the 79 Series Cruiser and everything but the body shape and a slightly shorter wheelbase applies.
76 Series Toyota Landcruiser
The 76, is the 4 door wagon version of a 79 Series Landcruiser, albeit with a slightly shorter wheelbase than the 78 and a fair bit shorter than the 79 and with a lower loading capacity.
Everything about them is as reliable as the 79/78, and they share the same lack of features and comfort.
Nissan Patrol – GU or Y62
See our comments on the GU ute above, or the chopped Y62 wagon below.
If you can get a GU that’s still in decent condition, they’re a great car.
Better Alternatives to Rams, Silverados & Other Big American Utes
Context: Gross Combined Mass (GCM) can only be upgraded in Australia, as a part of Second Stage Manufacturing (SSM), which must happen prior to the vehicle being registered for the first time. For a Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) upgrade, it can only be recognised federally if it’s done as an SSM upgrade. Otherwise, you have to get it done in every state you want to travel to.
A higher GVM lets you load more weight in the car, and a higher GCM lets you tow a heavier trailer or caravan.
Pre-Rego (SSM) Chopped & Extended Y62 Patrol
The biggest problems with the Y62s is that they’re very thirsty and that they’re a wagon (only a problem if you want a ute, because the conversion is very expensive). These points aren’t all that important, seeing as they’re no thirstier than the American utes we’re comparing them to, which are also expensive enough for the conversion of a Y62 not to be that dramatic of an expense by comparison.
Even with these modifications, a Patrol is still going to be more reliable and suitable for real punishment in the Australian Outback, all the while having the capacity to fit and tow as much as a Ram or Silverado.
Pre-Rego (SSM) extended, GVM & GCM Upgraded 79 Series Landcruiser (V8)
The biggest down sides to the 79 series are their lack of comfort and features.
The comfort issue can largely be overcome, because the suspension is going to be replaced as part of a GVM/GCM upgrade, so you can get something that’s designed for touring comfort, unlike the stock suspension which is designed for hauling weight as a work vehicle. A pair of aftermarket seats is also a huge comfort upgrade.
The lack of features? Fancy, electronic features are for people that were over-indulged as children and breastfed until the age of 19.
With a GCM upgrade, you can have the same towing capacity as one of the American models (although the 79s already have a very good towing capacity). A chassis extension can provide a 2.5m tray on a dual cab, so you have heaps of space for loading and the GVM upgrade means you can fill all this space without being overweight.
What a great read. I am considering travelling around Australia for 5 years towing a van. 2 vans I have in mind have a 3.5t or 4.5t capacity. I am not into any 4wding for fun and would only use to get to remote places that were to good to miss. To get the misses on board I would prefer the tow vehicle to have all the luxury available. Not fussed over ute or wagon. Would prefer new not to buy anyone else’s problems, but it will all depend on what I can afford I guess. I was wanting your suggestion for new if I can afford it or 2nd hand for something below $100k
Hi Michael,
In that case – if you can stomach the fuel consumption – then maybe look at a Y62 Patrol.
But, if you’re mainly planning to get from A to B without much four-weheel-driving or hitting heaps of corrugated tracks, then you might be well suited going for one of the big Yank Tanks.
They often come off the factory floor with the GVM and GCM necessary for towing something heavy, if you do go for something over 3.5t.
I personally prefer more off-road focused Japanese options, but these will probably require GVM and GCM upgrades. As far as I’m aware, the only option for a GCM upgrade is during second-stage-manufacturing which has to be before the car was ever registered. This can make it a pretty expensive option. But, you might be able to get a good deal on something second hand where it has been bought for doing the big lap and then isn’t needed after that.
Hi Toby, my wife and I are looking at doing some touring next year around Australia. Currently looking at an off road caravan, corrigated roads only, 1600kg unladen. After a lot of research and reading your document, very enjoyable, we are considering buying a Isuzu Mu-X to tow it. Was something what your thoughts are on this car. I believe it uses the same chassis and engine as the D-Max? Also, before you ask, we will be booking a caravan towing course and a 4wd course before we go. Thanks for all your help.
Vincent
G’day Vincent,
I reckon the Mu-X is a great option. Often overlooked in conversations surrounding towing, but if you’re sticking with a light-weight van then they can be very well suited.
We’ve had a few Mu-X’s on tours and I can never fault them. The only thing to keep an eye out for is that the newer ones come with large rims and low profile tyres. If you’re going to be doing much off-road, or even just a lot of corrugated dirt roads, it would be a good idea to get smaller rims and higher profile tyres so you can lower the pressure without risking your rims.
If you don’t want to spend big on rims (and I’m not sure why most people do) – cheap, steel rims don’t look fancy but they certainly get the job done. That would be my recommendation. Then, you can keep the stock ones shiny for if you ever want to sell the car.
Cheers,
Toby
Hi Toby, I’m looking to tour central australia/kimberley region with my family of 4 as part of a ‘half lap’ from Melbourne! We may go to some remote areas, gibb river rd etc and lots of highway driving too of course. We won’t be towing anything, and staying in motel accommodation as my wife is still opposed to camping/caravaning but likes to bring lots of stuff still! What would you recommend as a comfortable, modern, reliable touring wagon? Is the Y62 the best or would I be better going for an LC200 or LC300 or other? Open to any ideas!
G’day Rob,
Sounds like an adventure.
The Y62 is mainly sought after for its towing capacity with the V8 petrol engine, as well as the space and comfort.
They’re very thirsty, so if you don’t need the extra pulling capacity you might be paying extra per kilometre just to sound good.
My preference would be a 300 series, but they do come with a premium price tag and you wont have quite as much space as the Patrol. I also care much more about practicality and durability than I do for comfort, but I know that puts me in the minority.
For reliability and availability of diesel in remote parts, I’d personally probably opt for a low mileage 200 series before the Y62 if I didn’t want to spend on a 300. But, I do go very far out and do it a lot.
With all that said, if space and comfort is what you’re after, the Y62 will certainly get the job done.
I don’t know how many kilometres you’d have to do before the efficiency of a 300 made up for the difference in purchase price, but it would be a hell of a lot.
Cheers,
Toby
Thanks very much for the great advice Toby. I’ll test drive a few 300 and low mileage 200 series and pick which one I like to drive best!
Happy to help Rob. But don’t let me talk you out of a Y62 if you prefer it to the cruisers, they’re still a great car.
Hi mate, what are your thoughts on the 2.8L now being fitted in the 70 series?
G’day Scott,
I’m pretty sad about the end of the V8s. Although, I’m fairly sure Toyota wouldn’t do anything rash without lots of testing and consideration, so I am expecting the new configuration to at least be quite reliable. Whether it turns out to be the legendary level of reliability we’ve come to expect from a 70 remains to be seen.
People are quick to point out that they’re coming off the line with specs that are equal to or better than the V8. I don’t think that’s all that helpful, as the 2.8L’s are coming out of the box with tuning that’s designed to get the most out of them. The V8s come so de-tuned that it’s not even funny. You can tune the 4.5L/V8 and get tonnes more power and torque without overcooking it. It’s probably one of the only engines where you can tune them to get more power, more torque, and better fuel economy all without affecting the reliability.
It might be that the 2.8L – owing to being a more modern engine design – is capable of getting the same performance without sacrificing reliability. We’ll have to wait and see on that.
I prefer manuals, but that’s just a personal preference. I have no doubt of Toyota’s ability to make a rock-solid transmission.
I just think you can get so much more out of the V8 once you tune it, and you don’t even have to do a stupid youtuber-rip-the-studs-out-of-the-block kind of tune. It can be a fairly moderate and reliable tune.
If I didn’t already have the V8 – which I absolutely love – and only had the option of the 2.8L or a different car, I’d choose the 2.8.
I hope that long ramble helps.
Sorry for the late reply, I’ve been wrapping up our tour season.
Thanks,
Toby
Hi Toby
Thanks for your thoughts.
Rgds
scott
Hi Toby thank you for the information, I use to have a GU Patrol with the ZD30 common rail and I loved it unfortunate the engine had problems after a accident and i had to trade it in.
I kinda wish i kept it for a engine swap but had no time or the money to do so so I ended up getting what I could afford, That was a Gen 4 Mitsubishi Pajero haha so far I like it though it doesn’t have the stance like the GU but it has taken myself and the family everywhere so far.
I was wondering since you highlighted its monocoque design without a chassis design have i made a bad mistake in buying this 4X4 and should i look at selling or if I keep it what should I do to improve it the best way possible.
I do some 4×4 driving and touring but nothing too extreme with the Paj yet it definitely a great all rounder.
One day when i have some time and money i would love a GQ Patrol with GU axles and with a healthy TD42 with a turbo.
I love a 200 serious but its way too expensive sadly.
Thanks Toby
Jeremy
G’day Jeremy,
I wouldn’t worry too much mate. It’s definitely something to consider when you’re still looking around, but not worth selling the car over if you’ve already got one.
Unless you’re planning on going up and down the Canning Stock Route a few times or something with as many corrugations, I’d say you’d be fine. However, if you do start to hit a lot of tracks frequently with punishing corrugations, then it may be worth reconsidering.
I previously had a D22 Navara with the ZD30 (not common-rail). Those things are the patron saint of P Platers, but I loved it. It always had something minor go wrong because of its age, but never anything major. That thing got me so many places where it seemed like it had no right to be.
Cheers,
Toby
P.S. Sorry for the slow reply, I have been away on a tour.
Hi Toby, newbie here. Is the LC300 GR-S necessary or is the VX totally sufficient for single person touring? (Or is single person touring a bad idea?) What about the Everest Sport – is it robust & reliable enough? Yes, I’ve read all those sources you mentioned (carexpert, etc). Came across your article just now! Thnx, Lino
G’day Lino,
Thanks for reaching out. Sorry for the slow reply, I’ve been on the road.
Single person touring is a great idea! It gives you the ultimate freedom because you can go where you want, when you want, without having to rely on someone else. There’s always that mate that says they’ll come along, but never seems to be willing to ask for time off work and eventually flakes. There’s a bit more to do in terms of communication and contingency plans if you head out on your own, but with today’s technology it’s pretty manageable and cheaper than ever.
The GR-S is more ready out of the gate and has some features that make solo touring a little easier if you want to go that bit further remote. The main difference is the diff lockers, in terms of what will give you actual off-road ability, whereas I feel like most other features are just a matter of how comfy it might be to do it. But with all that said, the basic models are still going to get the same job done 95% of the time and diff-locks might be overkill if you’re solo touring and not going super remote. You could always get a budget winch as a cheap insurance policy in case you did get stuck somewhere, which would probably be enough to get you out so you can turn around.
The Everest is a very capable car, but if you’re buying it for the sake of touring, it’s worth considering that after doing a lot of mileage off-road it will get to a point where it starts to complain, which would probably be in the form of the transmission spitting the dummy. The LC300 will be too expensive for many, but from a strict number crunching perspective, their resale value can make a fairly compelling argument.
I hope that helps.
Cheers,
Toby
I am a Jeep lover and have had 2 jeeps, currently a JK. I have never had any problems mechanically. My issue is they do not tow much and trying to put a Roof Top Tent on, I am having to do a lot of research and stand my ground, as all 4WD shops want to sell me is Rhino roof racks but a Yakima holds more weight. Love my Jeep and would definitely travel a far with it, just not towing our van. In saying that we also have a RAM 1500 Laramie stock standard. Love it too and it does tow our van but we are definitely not taking it off road up corrugated dirt tracks. It is an American ute, not meant for the Australian outback. Just putting this out into the abyss/Universe: Is there a 4WD out there that has the comfort and tow rating of a RAM 1500 but the 4WD of a Jeep? I will keep reading, but lease let me know or I will get back to you if I find one.
G’day Lisa,
It’s a great question, but unfortunately it seems like the manufacturers aren’t realising what’s going on in Australia, and what we’re calling out for.
I think the Super Duty Ranger that has been announced will probably be the closest thing. I would steer clear of them personally though, as the normal models have a lot of box/auto trouble even without towing and a whole lot more when towing. It would be reasonable to assume that Ford would bring out an over-engineered gearbox or transmission, for the model designed to do a lot of towing, but it also would have been reasonable to assume that they would fix the weak points on the normal ranger, which they haven’t.
I really hope that they define a new category by bringing it out and that other manufacturers realise that there’s a need for it. The trend over the last few years with how many big American utes have hit the roads, is a dead giveaway that we’re wanting to tow big things a long way.
Thanks for your reply. I have been living and breathing what to buy since I posted this. The new Ram Rebel versus the zr2 Silverado. The Chev seems to be a combined Ram/Jeep as far as I am concerned. The chev V8 motor issues/class action in the USA, are now under warranty for 10 years. Vs Ram Rebel V6 Hurricane(say V6 in a lower voice) and Rams problem with getting parts in Australia and not as 4WD- ish as the Silverado. Leads me to the Silverado which I think is my decision. Craig Lowndes drove an off the floor one in Fink and apparently did well. If we were to join a tag along group as beginners what would you want to see us turn up in? Ram or Silverado? Or something I haven’t considered. FYI: need heated seats for a health condition.
I would probably lump them in the same category in terms of reliability. The Silverado would probably be my choice between the two, but we’ve had a few Rams come on tour with us and they haven’t had any problems at all mechanically. They were all quite new at the time though.
We did have one person with a Ram where the display cracked and stopped working on the corrugations on the Canning Stock Route. Whether that would be any better in a Silverado, I wouldn’t know.
I’d be just as happy with either if someone turned up to a tour.
Sorry for another slow reply, I’ve been on tour again.
Cheers,
Toby
I hear this all to often in australia but with right mantenance jeeps are very reliable. Problems occur whem mods are done on the cheap or putting it to use its not suited to
Yeah, the type of owner certainly makes a difference. But with some makes, I find this difference can be more significant compared to others, which is why I get a bit wary sometimes.
Might be worth updating this page somewhat.
bt-50 is now based off of a d-max, not a ranger.
Amarok is based off the Ranger now.
Good catch mate.
Yeah, I’ve updated it now to make it clear that I was talking about BT-50s when they were re-badged Rangers. I’ve split them up by generation/year so hopefully it’s a bit more clear.
Cheers Big Fella!
P.S. Sorry for the slow reply and comment approval. I was out on one of our Pilbara tours.
Hi Toby,
Great article – thank you!
I have a 2024 Landcruiser 76 Series, V8 with GVM upgrade. I’m contemplating “upgrading” this to a 300 series GXL GVM upgrade pre-rego. Am I silly and should stick with the 76 or worth considering changing to the 300? We are a family of 4 (2 adults, 6yr old and 4 yr old) and tow a van with max weight 3 tonne.
Cheers,
Tom
G’day Tom,
Thanks for reaching out.
It’s hard to say if it’s silly, without knowing your circumstances. If you have to leverage yourself to the eyeballs for a change that offers minimal practical advantages, then that would be bordering on stupid. However, if you can comfortably afford it, then it might just depend on how much you’re going to use it and how long you plan on having it. If you can afford it, but not comfortably, then it should still be pause for thought.
Essentially, you’ll be confined to the same practical restraints in terms of it being a wagon with x amount of GVM available and both are going to get you almost anywhere. Unless you’ve got a lot of lift already on the 76, that would be too hard to match with an IFS (independent front suspension) 300, then your ability to access places will be practically identical. So the upgrade is going to be for comfort and fuel economy, both of which will be upgraded significantly.
With the 76 being a 2024, by changing over you’re going to get hit with two lots of depreciating values from buying new and selling second hand. But with cruisers in this market, that’s maybe not going to be so bad. The other money sink that you wont recover is stamp duty. The fact that the government seem to think there’s twice as much difficulty in rubber stamping the same documents for a $100k car compared to a $50k car has got me buggered.
But, with all that said, if you’re going to be doing enough distance over the years, the fuel efficiency upgrade might pay for itself. In that case, you’d be mad not to, if the 300 is what you really want.
I usually try and offer more specific advice without the “it depends” bit, but I hope that’s at least of some help.
Cheers,
Toby
I have had Discoveries for the past 20 years and have been stuck in the used car market. I love these vehicles for their capabilities their unbreakable rugged chassis and running gear. Strong solid design any Landcruiser or Patrol. I am speaking of the Disco 1s and 2s based on the 80s Range rover chassis. So comfortable and so much feel of the road for what your rubber is doing. They feel like your driving a car not a truck unlike the other two I named before but just as capable. I have never been stranded as they always got home…just sometimes. They do deserve the unreliable rep as there is almost always something that needs attention. But they keep going and going anywhere.
I do fix them myself and if I couldn’t I couldn’t afford one. After market stuff is massive these days and cheap. Go diesel not petrol. Petrol is so thirsty it’s hard to believe.
I started with a 90 series 3 years ago
and was so impressed what it could off road stock. It could move mountains but a touch old, slow and wandering.
As for the newer discos they have gone sensor’s and computer coplexity like all vehicles in the last 20 years and this I believe is not ideal for being in the bush by yourself. They do stop from what I’ve heard.
G’day Andrew,
My old D22 Navara was a bit like that. It had frequent issues, but only ever had minor things go wrong with it that I could fix myself. But, even if it’s a minor problem, if you’re 1,000km away from the part you need you’re still somewhat snookered. I loved that car though, because it kept getting me to places that it seemed like it had no right to get to for an old girl.
Yeah, I don’t like cars thinking for themselves. It’s getting harder and harder to get a car without an over-dependence on computerisation, regardless of brand.
Cheers,
Toby
Hey Toby! Great article and a very Interesting compare. Friends of me driving every second year from Dresden to Banjul. Most time with modified crap 2wd cars or transporter like Mercedes Sprinter… but they want to sell the vehicle at the destination point and spend the money to different organisations.
I should send them the link to your page 😀 They would love it.
Many greets from Germany
Matthias
https://kfz-sachverstaendiger-wertz.de
Hi Toby! Thanks for the blog; it is new to me and I’m very much enjoying it. Can I ask your thoughts on the LC200 with a GVM upgrade as a vehicle for touring, towing a lightweight camper trailer? I love the idea of a 76 or 79, except for the expense and jolting of the front solid axle over corrugations…
G’day Tom,
Sorry for the slow reply, I’ve been leading a group through the East Pilbara and haven’t had any internet.
A 200 series with a GVM upgrade is an excellent option for a tourer. As you know, the usable GVM isn’t a lot on them from stock, but it’s worth doing a 2″ lift to give you clearance for some slightly bigger all terrains, so you may as well do the GVM upgrade as part of that. The downside to post-registration GVM upgrades is that they’re only valid in the state that you get the approval and not federally (I think).
Wagons are still a great choice for touring as it’s amazing how much you can fit in them with a well designed fit-out. If you’re anywhere near Perth, talk to Core Off-Road and ask them about the fit-outs they did for 4Xploring’s LC300s, which I found very impressive in terms of what they could fit easily.
It’s very easy to over complicate it. It’s amazing how far you can go with just the basics.
Thanks so much Toby
G’day Toby and thanks for the article! I am curious to ask why there is an omission of the Prado? Is it because you feel it is just too limited in terms of GVM to load safely and not overly stress? We’ve done loads of trips in ours (a 3.0 diesel 2015, mostly towing a lighter offroad camper trailer), and they are one of the more ubiquitous machines on the dirt. Interested to hear your thoughts.
G’day Mat,
I am a fan of the Prado. Only reason it didn’t make it on to the list is because it wasn’t right at the top of what I would choose (assuming no budget limitations, including fuel budget) and way too good to be put in the cars to avoid section.
I’m not super concerned by GVM either. I think a lot of people overpack and having a tighter range to work with is generally a useful constraint.
I probably should get around to giving them a mention in the article.